WEBVTT 00:00:12.120 --> 00:00:15.680 Welcome to the Bikeshed podcast, where we talk about all things software engineering, 00:00:16.420 --> 00:00:20.220 which terminal I'm using today, and the new Getting Killed album by Geese. 00:00:21.040 --> 00:00:25.880 I'm your co-host, user of Ghostty Today, but Wezterm tomorrow, Scott Kaye. 00:00:26.450 --> 00:00:28.320 And alongside with me are my co-hosts. 00:00:28.840 --> 00:00:30.720 He wrote the blog post on building your application. 00:00:32.020 --> 00:00:34.440 Your code's current version bows down to his next one. 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:36.860 He's deploying tomorrow's solutions today. 00:00:37.820 --> 00:00:38.460 Matt Hamlin. 00:00:39.480 --> 00:00:42.820 And my other co-host, the Southern Syntax Scorcher, 00:00:43.380 --> 00:00:46.340 melting server-side requests and blazing through performance. 00:00:47.300 --> 00:00:49.640 Dillon, spicy take curry. 00:00:51.540 --> 00:00:54.440 Fellas, I heard we got something different for the viewers today. 00:00:56.120 --> 00:00:57.300 Yep, we sure do, Scott. 00:00:58.340 --> 00:01:01.720 We have no topic, but we have some things we want to talk about. 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:04.000 So we're going to go through some of those. 00:01:05.300 --> 00:01:09.620 Matt, why don't you let us know some of the things you think we're going to talk about today, at least. 00:01:09.740 --> 00:01:10.920 And then we'll see where it takes us. 00:01:12.020 --> 00:01:13.660 I've been thinking a little bit about coffee brewing. 00:01:14.780 --> 00:01:16.080 So that's something we can talk about. 00:01:17.060 --> 00:01:20.540 Cursor 2.0 dropped the other week, which is interesting. 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:24.840 And I've been struggling with Claude Code. 00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:27.980 So those are the things that I'm interested in. 00:01:28.020 --> 00:01:32.440 And I think next is a next.js is like maybe something we should dig into. 00:01:32.940 --> 00:01:35.420 Um, so maybe we'll, we'll cover that as well. 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:42.660 So we, a variety, variety, uh, bag of, uh, mixed treats. 00:01:42.800 --> 00:01:44.160 It's a, it's, it's our Halloween episode. 00:01:44.320 --> 00:01:45.480 It's our trick or treat, right? 00:01:45.580 --> 00:01:47.220 You get, uh, get a few different things. 00:01:47.800 --> 00:01:51.560 I'm really excited to talk about how to use Claude code successfully. 00:01:54.140 --> 00:01:54.840 You know, I think what's gonna happen. 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:56.820 We're just gonna talk about coffee for the next hour. 00:01:58.780 --> 00:02:00.140 i'd prefer to do that too 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:09.720 i happen to be drinking like some of the worst coffee at least in my opinion 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:09.720 it's interesting like i feel 00:02:09.820 --> 00:02:14.860 like i agree i i'm not i'm not a fan of Dunkin coffee 00:02:09.820 --> 00:02:14.860 they don't know what i'm holding up yeah 00:02:14.980 --> 00:02:19.800 for listeners don't drinking a what's the uh what's the go-to order everyone orders like an 00:02:19.900 --> 00:02:26.099 iced medium or whatever 00:02:19.900 --> 00:02:26.099 this is just a Dunkin latte regular 00:02:19.900 --> 00:02:26.099 okay 00:02:19.900 --> 00:02:26.099 yeah we took the train down 00:02:26.100 --> 00:02:32.040 to Stamford on tuesday and uh tuesday morning and um the there's like a Dunkin at the train track or 00:02:32.040 --> 00:02:36.640 the train station there so we got some coffee there and it's like it's like all right it's fine but 00:02:36.700 --> 00:02:42.880 it's not excellent yeah i only drink it when like i'm too lazy to make coffee which i have to be 00:02:43.050 --> 00:02:50.739 really lazy but it is interesting as like a non-northeasterner like i feel like everyone here 00:02:51.060 --> 00:02:56.900 that's like from here like loves Dunkin but then it's like i've tried it and it's just like it's 00:02:56.900 --> 00:03:03.300 just coffee it's not yeah yesterday who's from here and they're like Dunkin's the greatest and 00:03:03.300 --> 00:03:11.220 i'm like no it's it's terrible but i'm not from here yeah yeah i'm gonna lie around that too i 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:19.139 Dunkin is not good it's it yeah like have you had a dutch bros matt you've had dutch bros haven't 00:03:19.160 --> 00:03:20.340 They at least have those in California. 00:03:21.020 --> 00:03:25.360 So I feel like Dunkin' Donuts is more of like you're getting a dessert and not real coffee. 00:03:25.940 --> 00:03:27.500 Like that's the attraction to it. 00:03:28.020 --> 00:03:28.540 You know what I'm saying? 00:03:28.700 --> 00:03:30.920 It's not like about somebody who really likes to drink coffee. 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:32.980 It's you want to get something that tastes good. 00:03:33.780 --> 00:03:35.460 Which Starbucks kind of does a lot now. 00:03:36.060 --> 00:03:38.260 But Dutch Bros does that to the nines. 00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:41.080 And it's like awesome. 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:43.320 But even their regular cold brew tastes good. 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:48.740 Have you guys seen those like TikTok short, YouTube shorts, whatever it is, Instagram reels, 00:03:48.920 --> 00:03:51.420 of people making insane Dunkin' orders 00:03:51.750 --> 00:03:54.260 where it's like, I want 15 scoops of sugar. 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:56.260 And then they show a large iced cup, 00:03:56.700 --> 00:03:57.720 and half of it is sugar. 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:00.460 And then they add in some syrup on top of it. 00:04:01.320 --> 00:04:04.920 I feel like that's just the standard Dunkin' Donuts order. 00:04:05.540 --> 00:04:07.060 The person that walks into Dunkin' Donuts, 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:08.020 they order that thing. 00:04:09.380 --> 00:04:11.600 I feel like that's the only way that they can drink the coffee 00:04:11.690 --> 00:04:14.400 is if it has 90% sugar in it. 00:04:15.200 --> 00:04:16.420 They're not ordering the coffee. 00:04:16.579 --> 00:04:17.799 They're ordering the cream and sugar 00:04:17.820 --> 00:04:20.060 with a splash of coffee flavor. 00:04:20.320 --> 00:04:21.739 Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. 00:04:22.280 --> 00:04:22.820 Which is interesting. 00:04:22.870 --> 00:04:24.580 I feel like Dunkin' has that reputation, 00:04:24.670 --> 00:04:25.920 whereas Starbucks maybe doesn't. 00:04:26.220 --> 00:04:27.600 But Starbucks is definitely the same thing. 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:29.400 It's like you're ordering a sugar drink 00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:30.900 with coffee flavoring. 00:04:31.540 --> 00:04:33.920 This all makes me realize why I hate Dunkin' 00:04:33.980 --> 00:04:35.780 is because I don't put sugar in my coffee, 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.080 even with a Dunkin' order. 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:41.600 So I'm getting the worst form of Dunkin'. 00:04:42.100 --> 00:04:42.220 Yeah. 00:04:43.300 --> 00:04:45.060 Like if I was ordering the dessert in a cup, 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:47.360 then it would probably be okay. 00:04:48.200 --> 00:04:54.280 but I'm just like getting the worst version of it I made that mistake with uh my first time at 00:04:54.380 --> 00:04:59.560 Dunkin I went I went down to we had to there was a Dunkin in the mall at Wayfair and I was in early 00:04:59.840 --> 00:05:04.640 and I went down with Andrew and like Andrew knew his order because he basically does Dunkin every 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:11.340 day I'm pretty sure um and and I this is the first time I've been to Dunkin and I was like I'll just 00:05:11.440 --> 00:05:16.380 take like a cold brew and that was like or I don't even know if I ordered a cold brew I think it was 00:05:16.300 --> 00:05:22.320 just an iced coffee. I got like a, the largest size they have just pure black iced coffee. And 00:05:22.460 --> 00:05:30.980 that was maybe the wrong decision. It was terrible. 00:05:22.460 --> 00:05:30.980 We've talked about all the bad coffee. I mean, 00:05:31.340 --> 00:05:36.900 or Dunkin, sorry. 00:05:31.340 --> 00:05:36.900 Yeah. 00:05:31.340 --> 00:05:36.900 Matt, recently you mentioned that you were trying to make coffee 00:05:37.540 --> 00:05:43.980 at home and you had some issues. Well, yeah, I guess to back up a little bit. So I've been, 00:05:44.640 --> 00:05:48.100 So at home in Boston, we have an espresso machine. 00:05:49.180 --> 00:05:53.360 I'm blanking on the name, but it's kind of a similar model that Scott recently got. 00:05:55.300 --> 00:05:57.480 And so we used to do espresso basically every morning. 00:05:59.140 --> 00:06:02.060 But I've been switching up to using this palm press thing. 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:07.460 It's kind of like a pour over, kind of like a French press blend thing. 00:06:08.200 --> 00:06:09.340 Like, you know, cross between the two. 00:06:10.820 --> 00:06:11.820 And that's been nice. 00:06:12.790 --> 00:06:14.600 But here at... 00:06:14.660 --> 00:06:16.400 at my in-laws, like we have like a Chemex. 00:06:16.690 --> 00:06:24.780 And so I've been trying to like, like, it's kind of nice to like experiment or use the Chemex when I haven't, I haven't really used it that often. 00:06:25.500 --> 00:06:30.200 And so like every time I come back and it's like a couple months or so between times I'm here. 00:06:30.320 --> 00:06:32.740 So it's like, I kind of like forget how I used it. 00:06:34.060 --> 00:06:41.760 So I used it yesterday morning and it's like, I just end up with a cup that's like kind of half, not really half full, but like there's a lot of like sediment at the bottom of the cup. 00:06:41.900 --> 00:06:42.980 And I was like, what am I doing wrong? 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:46.960 apparently you need to use a paper filter along with the metal filter. 00:06:47.820 --> 00:06:50.860 That's something I just didn't think about. 00:06:51.340 --> 00:06:52.260 No, that's understandable. 00:06:52.840 --> 00:06:54.240 We've always had a pour over. 00:06:54.400 --> 00:06:55.140 I don't have the Chemex. 00:06:55.260 --> 00:06:56.180 Chemex is nice. 00:06:56.880 --> 00:07:00.820 But we just had a pour over where the paper filter wouldn't make it through, 00:07:00.880 --> 00:07:01.740 so we have to use both. 00:07:02.300 --> 00:07:04.240 So I just toss a paper filter inside. 00:07:04.780 --> 00:07:07.380 And it still gets a little bit of that stuff at the bottom of the batch. 00:07:08.820 --> 00:07:10.820 I honestly just try to pour that out. 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:15.920 But another thing you can do is you can try to refilter that part of the batch. 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:19.240 So like before you pour that last cup, pour it through another filter. 00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:21.560 But you don't have to do that. 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:22.940 Chemex filters are probably costly. 00:07:24.100 --> 00:07:26.760 But you also do like Scott, correct me if you're wrong. 00:07:26.820 --> 00:07:31.320 You're using your Chemex as like a cold brew maker versus just like a hot pour over setup. 00:07:31.520 --> 00:07:32.980 No, I do a hot pour over now. 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:34.820 I have a, you said a palm press. 00:07:35.060 --> 00:07:38.940 I actually have like a plastic version of the same thing. 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:41.260 It's like a French press where I might do that. 00:07:41.420 --> 00:07:43.880 But I actually, that has a lot of grit in it too. 00:07:43.970 --> 00:07:52.420 So I'll actually pour that after through the paper in my regular pour over. 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:56.240 I'll pour it through that again to try to like clean that up. 00:07:56.580 --> 00:07:58.720 You know, I wish the intro said something about coffee. 00:07:59.640 --> 00:08:00.880 It's like the first time I did that. 00:08:05.880 --> 00:08:10.859 Yeah, let me, I'm just digging up the thing that I have as my, like the thing I use basically 00:08:10.880 --> 00:08:14.880 daily is this like palm press i don't even i don't know if it's that brand but it looks the exact same 00:08:15.080 --> 00:08:22.000 thing we'll share a link to it in the uh in the episode notes the show notes 00:08:15.080 --> 00:08:22.000 i was trying to dig 00:08:22.180 --> 00:08:27.880 up this medium post that i wrote which sounds crazy because i never write blog posts so i think it's 00:08:27.880 --> 00:08:34.200 like the last one last blog post i ever wrote was how to make like coffee and a chemex for people in 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:41.440 a hurry because i feel like at that time every like chemex video was like some barista spending 00:08:41.700 --> 00:08:47.240 20 minutes teaching you how to do it and i feel like it's just not that complicated it's like the 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:54.020 most basic way to make coffee but it's simple clean and like easy i feel and it tastes the best in my 00:08:54.080 --> 00:09:02.359 opinion this was one of the things that i feel like i was uh late to catch on when we worked 00:09:02.380 --> 00:09:08.900 together at Wayfair was like the like brewing coffee in the office movement which I feel like 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:17.060 it came back uh kind of at the tail end of COVID before we started leaving um but uh yeah I don't 00:09:17.060 --> 00:09:22.400 know I feel like it I feel like for the most part like getting coffee when when at work was either 00:09:22.500 --> 00:09:26.939 going to one of the coffee machines which is actually even worse than maybe Dunkin but uh 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:33.920 or going like walking on our sort of twice daily trip to the Starbucks in the mall. 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:36.160 Yeah. 00:09:36.400 --> 00:09:37.940 The making coffee in the office was just, 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:40.800 we didn't want to spend the money to go to Starbucks every day, 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:44.120 but it was also, it's just another form of the water cooler chat. 00:09:44.500 --> 00:09:46.300 So we'd go like hang out, get a break from work. 00:09:47.340 --> 00:09:49.120 And maybe there was a recent layoff. 00:09:49.460 --> 00:09:51.160 So we just wanted to hide from our desks. 00:09:56.460 --> 00:10:08.480 Yeah, and then the Starbucks coffee walk eventually evolved into a blank street coffee walk, which eventually became nothing because we were spending too much money on coffee. 00:10:11.520 --> 00:10:11.760 All right. 00:10:11.830 --> 00:10:12.820 Have we coffeed out? 00:10:14.860 --> 00:10:15.060 Yea 00:10:15.520 --> 00:10:15.660 Nope. 00:10:15.670 --> 00:10:16.760 I got more to talk about. 00:10:16.850 --> 00:10:18.180 We didn't talk about my Breville yet. 00:10:19.980 --> 00:10:23.580 Yeah, Scott, give us a review of the Breville because you haven't used the Breville before, right? 00:10:23.640 --> 00:10:27.740 I never used a Breville or espresso machine ever. 00:10:29.060 --> 00:10:32.600 I mean, I made coffee with like Keurigs and stuff. All right. It's amazing. 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:34.780 It's not too hard to do. 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:38.660 I guess like everyone who has this or has an espresso machine is just going to 00:10:38.760 --> 00:10:41.320 know. I don't know if either of you have or had, 00:10:41.760 --> 00:10:44.400 but like the hardest part is probably when you get fresh coffee, 00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:47.440 understanding how much to grind it at. 00:10:47.560 --> 00:10:50.760 So there are grind levels that has its own grinder and you, 00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:52.880 you don't want it to be too fine or too coarse. If I remember, 00:10:53.180 --> 00:11:01.520 You want a pretty fine grind, but if it's fresher, you want it to be slightly coarser. 00:11:01.520 --> 00:11:02.780 You don't want it to be too fine. 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:12.220 And then if it's not fresh coffee, you often have to use more of it to get a good pour versus when it's fresher, you have to have less in the level. 00:11:12.740 --> 00:11:15.580 So I've tried to weigh it, but it's tough. 00:11:15.750 --> 00:11:18.980 So basically the first one you do is like an experiment. 00:11:19.110 --> 00:11:20.180 Do I need a little more coffee? 00:11:20.420 --> 00:11:23.260 do I need a little less to try to get that perfect espresso? 00:11:23.900 --> 00:11:26.260 I have not used any of the tools with the Breville, 00:11:27.710 --> 00:11:28.920 the frother or any of that stuff. 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:31.140 I've only used, I already have a frother, 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:34.660 so we've made cold drinks, just haven't made any warm drinks. 00:11:35.760 --> 00:11:37.760 I've had one espresso shot, 00:11:38.070 --> 00:11:40.300 but I usually just make an Americano, add water, 00:11:40.580 --> 00:11:43.200 or I'll make it into a latte, but like an iced latte, 00:11:43.420 --> 00:11:45.300 not a warm drink yet. 00:11:45.560 --> 00:11:48.040 So TBD, when it gets really cold out, 00:11:48.090 --> 00:11:49.500 if I start having some warmer bevs, 00:11:50.060 --> 00:11:52.040 But the thing's great. 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:53.720 It's been really nice. 00:11:53.930 --> 00:11:57.100 And for the first month of having it, I made one every single morning. 00:11:57.690 --> 00:12:01.080 And I make one for me and Brittney because I can just do a double shot. 00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:04.060 And we have shot glasses because I don't really drink. 00:12:04.090 --> 00:12:05.640 But I use these really nice shot glasses. 00:12:06.180 --> 00:12:07.680 Our friends David and Jane got us. 00:12:08.340 --> 00:12:11.140 And we put one in the fridge for her. 00:12:11.190 --> 00:12:12.440 And she just makes a drink with it. 00:12:12.560 --> 00:12:13.060 So that was great. 00:12:13.230 --> 00:12:15.060 I haven't done that for like the last week. 00:12:15.400 --> 00:12:16.720 And every weekend, that's what we drink. 00:12:16.900 --> 00:12:18.620 But I honestly haven't gotten Starbucks since. 00:12:19.660 --> 00:12:22.640 It's just like, I don't think Starbucks is like amazing or anything. 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.720 I kind of use it now because like for a long time it had tons of deals. 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:27.380 I'm ranting. 00:12:27.700 --> 00:12:29.160 I'm going on a full on rant. 00:12:29.410 --> 00:12:30.380 It used to have tons of deals. 00:12:30.470 --> 00:12:36.200 Like when we used to go on our trips at work and you'd get a free drink pretty often or 00:12:36.230 --> 00:12:37.540 you get something for free pretty often. 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:39.300 I'd get a free bag of coffee or something. 00:12:39.820 --> 00:12:45.160 Now, like I rarely get them, but I'm starting to see them again since I think I haven't been 00:12:45.160 --> 00:12:46.100 a customer as much. 00:12:46.280 --> 00:12:49.420 But yeah, I just, Starbucks coffee is just okay. 00:12:49.620 --> 00:12:53.140 It's over roasted and you can tell it's like burnt. 00:12:53.640 --> 00:12:54.160 Yeah, it's burnt. 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:54.940 It's like burnt beans. 00:12:55.920 --> 00:12:56.500 It's okay. 00:12:56.740 --> 00:12:57.840 It's fine in a pinch. 00:12:57.860 --> 00:13:01.440 It's better than Dunkin's for sure. 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.280 But I have no reason to now. 00:13:04.420 --> 00:13:05.980 I'm just like, what beans do I get? 00:13:06.580 --> 00:13:11.400 And recently I had gotten some Atomic beans, the same that I had gotten you, Matt. 00:13:11.820 --> 00:13:13.380 I don't know if we discussed that on here. 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.620 We didn't, but we're both drinking atomic. 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:16.920 Maybe you've already went through it. 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:22.080 And also I was at Atomic two days ago with Eric Hermanson. 00:13:22.400 --> 00:13:23.180 Shout out to Eric. 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.200 I went to pick up a bag while we were there. 00:13:26.680 --> 00:13:29.760 They only had the smaller bags and then I forgot to grab one. 00:13:30.300 --> 00:13:32.860 Usually I get like a two pounder, but yeah. 00:13:33.400 --> 00:13:33.540 Okay. 00:13:33.820 --> 00:13:34.840 That's enough about coffee, right? 00:13:36.380 --> 00:13:39.140 One thing that, or a couple of things that came to mind as you're talking is like, one, 00:13:39.170 --> 00:13:44.480 we're probably going to alienate 90% of our audience because that we're like sort of really 00:13:44.660 --> 00:13:45.300 shitting on Dunkin. 00:13:45.400 --> 00:13:47.140 and then I feel like some of them are going to be like, 00:13:47.490 --> 00:13:49.180 I enjoy Dunkin or something like that. 00:13:51.300 --> 00:13:52.240 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 00:13:52.590 --> 00:13:56.120 I mean, it's not top tier coffee, but we all drink it. 00:13:56.680 --> 00:13:57.980 Dillon's drinking one right now. 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:00.660 I'll recommend the cold brew. 00:14:00.750 --> 00:14:02.360 The cold brew is better than the regular iced 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.420 as a less tangy taste to it or bitter taste to it. 00:14:05.540 --> 00:14:10.040 But it's just not, I don't know. 00:14:10.090 --> 00:14:11.660 If you're like a coffee connoisseur, 00:14:11.780 --> 00:14:13.340 it's like not the best beans. 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:14.280 It's never a first choice. 00:14:15.160 --> 00:14:15.720 It's last choice. 00:14:16.560 --> 00:14:21.380 Have you guys watched the more recent seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm? 00:14:23.540 --> 00:14:24.020 Okay, Larry. 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:24.380 All right. 00:14:24.660 --> 00:14:25.360 Spoilers, spoilers. 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.660 But Larry starts a coffee shop. 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:32.220 And they just talk about it's all about the beans. 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:33.420 And they make these jokes. 00:14:33.520 --> 00:14:34.360 Oh, he's got the beans. 00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:40.560 Dunkin doesn't "got the beans" as much as a smaller place. 00:14:44.160 --> 00:14:44.320 All right. 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:46.440 Maybe we talk a little bit about cursor 2. 00:14:47.800 --> 00:14:50.620 So Scott has probably had no idea what we're talking about when we talk about 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:52.500 cursor two, because he uses something called *bleep* chat, 00:14:53.140 --> 00:14:55.820 which maybe we're like leaking some internal secrets from Airbnb, 00:14:56.060 --> 00:14:57.500 but it's basically cloud code. 00:14:59.400 --> 00:15:00.380 I use cloud code at work. 00:15:00.580 --> 00:15:02.160 We were going to just say Claude code, man. 00:15:02.230 --> 00:15:03.200 Just bleep it, man. 00:15:03.410 --> 00:15:04.540 He uses something called bleep chat. 00:15:04.920 --> 00:15:06.200 I'm going to have to learn how to bleep. 00:15:10.060 --> 00:15:14.000 But for those that are software engineers probably know, 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:16.020 like within the past two weeks, I think, 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:17.400 Cursor dropped their, 00:15:17.990 --> 00:15:19.280 so for Cursor, for those that don't know, 00:15:19.340 --> 00:15:20.320 Cursor is like a code editor. 00:15:22.100 --> 00:15:24.020 It's a fork of VS Code 00:15:24.900 --> 00:15:26.680 and has like a lot of AI features built in. 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:28.840 They dropped their 2.0 release, 00:15:29.800 --> 00:15:31.560 which basically flipped the model. 00:15:31.670 --> 00:15:33.400 So before it was basically a nice code editor, 00:15:33.530 --> 00:15:35.860 like VS Code, with a lot of AI features built in. 00:15:36.260 --> 00:15:38.100 Now it's like an AI editor with, 00:15:38.420 --> 00:15:41.560 or like an AI experience with a code editor built in. 00:15:43.400 --> 00:15:47.200 And they also released a new model that they trained themselves that they said is really good. 00:15:48.880 --> 00:15:51.660 I've only used it a little bit, so I can't really speak too much about the model. 00:15:54.499 --> 00:15:59.480 I'm looking at these UI changes, and it just feels like the chat has been flipped to the left side of the screen. 00:16:00.220 --> 00:16:02.960 And then maybe there are a couple other drop-downs or something. 00:16:04.340 --> 00:16:08.880 Yeah, but it also defaults you to the chat-first experience, I think. 00:16:09.660 --> 00:16:10.040 Okay. 00:16:11.400 --> 00:16:13.940 Like previously you would come into something that looks like this code where, 00:16:14.210 --> 00:16:17.020 you know, for most people it's like the file system, file tree on the left, 00:16:17.140 --> 00:16:18.340 and then your editor pane in the middle. 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.380 And then you have like a right sidebar that had chat experience. 00:16:22.040 --> 00:16:24.420 Now it's like an, a chat experience. 00:16:24.910 --> 00:16:26.860 The left sidebar becomes a history of chats. 00:16:27.500 --> 00:16:30.260 And then on the right side, you can sometimes open up an editor window to 00:16:30.400 --> 00:16:32.240 see the diff of like what the code it's generating. 00:16:34.160 --> 00:16:34.600 It's interesting. 00:16:34.760 --> 00:16:37.980 I'm only realizing this now, but like kind of have like nice, like blend 00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:39.160 here of like experience here. 00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:45.120 because like Dillon i feel like you use primarily cursor or at work i guess 00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:45.120 yeah basically have like 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:51.360 unlimited cursor tokens at work 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:51.360 and you guys don't use Claude Code 00:16:51.400 --> 00:16:58.400 i've dabbled with the cursor cursor cli which is similar to Claude Code only because i've had issues 00:16:58.540 --> 00:17:04.819 with installing mcp servers into cursor but for whatever reason they work with cursor cli 00:17:06.360 --> 00:17:09.900 yeah scott's kind of on the opposite end where you guys don't use cursor at AirBnB 00:17:10.540 --> 00:17:14.439 but you'd use a chat experience in the terminal bleep chat 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:24.620 we actually piloted cursor and it got bad feedback at the company uh just to reiterate for the 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:31.739 millionth time i use vim the rest of the front-end engineering org at work uses vs code um so that's a 00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:38.220 thing. However, I guess I want to ask, so I am familiar with Cursor. I have used it. 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:45.620 Like if it was real game changing, I would probably use it. Vim has plugins that basically 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:52.460 do the same thing. I have a plugin called Avante at work that uses open AI models that literally 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:57.399 emulates, I guess, Cursor V1. So what's the difference here? Is it just, it sounds like 00:17:57.420 --> 00:18:05.120 it's a ui change where um it's more of like let's do ai coding first but also is there like any 00:18:05.320 --> 00:18:09.640 difference with like MCP are there new features that actually make this better or is it just 00:18:10.100 --> 00:18:15.300 we're approaching cursor as an ai first product and less of a VScode clone that has an extension 00:18:15.810 --> 00:18:25.160 to do yeah that's my like sort of baked in read of it um the uh that it's like the and i guess we 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:29.020 should be fair, like cursor was like a lot better than VS code in terms of like 00:18:29.050 --> 00:18:29.680 its AI features. 00:18:30.030 --> 00:18:33.680 Whereas like, like VS code, I haven't used it like vanilla VS code for a while, 00:18:34.090 --> 00:18:37.260 but like, I guess like they've been baking a lot of in like GitHub Copilot 00:18:37.390 --> 00:18:37.660 into it. 00:18:39.040 --> 00:18:42.760 But cursor was like sort of even better in the sense that had a like really 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:44.280 deeply integrated AI experience. 00:18:46.060 --> 00:18:53.799 And now it's like basically an AI editor plus, you know, also some features for 00:18:53.900 --> 00:18:56.720 like manually looking at and editing code on the side. 00:18:58.300 --> 00:19:00.380 Can I just say I like looking at it. 00:19:00.380 --> 00:19:02.940 I watched a video of it quickly with the sound off. 00:19:03.520 --> 00:19:04.380 It just looks like 00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:08.300 Vercel built a 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.800 coding app with V0. 00:19:12.500 --> 00:19:13.580 I mean, I don't know. 00:19:13.580 --> 00:19:15.220 It just looks like the 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:18.000 ShadCN V0. 00:19:19.340 --> 00:19:20.280 Yeah, it just looks that way. 00:19:20.580 --> 00:19:21.540 And they had support. 00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:22.840 You brought up MCP also. 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:25.400 but they had support for MCP before as well. 00:19:25.800 --> 00:19:27.780 And so I don't think that necessarily changes with this. 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.720 It's just, they just sort of like re-skinned 00:19:30.900 --> 00:19:31.600 the editor experience. 00:19:32.620 --> 00:19:34.360 So you're just using a GUI to-- 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:36.120 - It's just a UI update. 00:19:36.340 --> 00:19:39.580 Like they don't, they didn't add new MCP changes, 00:19:39.840 --> 00:19:42.240 but it's like a major change because it's UI. 00:19:42.660 --> 00:19:46.040 So like, can you change, I guess this doesn't matter too much, 00:19:46.120 --> 00:19:48.180 but can you make coding your default 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:52.440 or does it like force you into a AI first approach? 00:19:53.020 --> 00:20:06.300 I think it, so I think it defaults you to the agent experience, which is the AI first experience, but you can, I think, flip it to be an editor experience where you kind of go back to the standard VS code, like layout of like a file tree and a file view. 00:20:07.060 --> 00:20:12.880 I think the editor view is like when you're using the chat, it's single model back and forth chat. 00:20:13.540 --> 00:20:20.760 But when you opt into the agent view, it's like it gives you these additional tools to say like, we haven't really talked about this. 00:20:20.930 --> 00:20:25.000 You can run one prompt against as many models as you want at the same time. 00:20:25.780 --> 00:20:27.800 Or you can say like 00:20:25.780 --> 00:20:27.800 that's cool. 00:20:29.120 --> 00:20:32.860 Run it five times for the same model and see the different responses. 00:20:33.800 --> 00:20:38.480 And then you can also do a feature that some people have been doing, which is called using 00:20:38.610 --> 00:20:45.100 Git worktrees to like run multiple agents on different copies of the same code. 00:20:45.150 --> 00:20:49.060 But it has like built in support for that now, where you can like opt into worktrees 00:20:49.630 --> 00:20:52.160 and then start running multiple agents at the same time. 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:53.280 I haven't tried this. 00:20:53.760 --> 00:20:56.860 I can barely multitask at all. 00:20:57.180 --> 00:21:00.820 So this sounds insane to try to like solve multiple problems on the same code base at 00:21:00.820 --> 00:21:01.340 the same time. 00:21:01.700 --> 00:21:02.540 But yeah, I don't know. 00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:05.300 Yeah, I'm curious about your guys' experience with Worktrees. 00:21:05.360 --> 00:21:08.560 Have you guys been using Worktrees at all with AI yet? 00:21:09.320 --> 00:21:09.640 Not me. 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:11.380 Wow, this is interesting. 00:21:11.580 --> 00:21:15.040 I actually started using Worktrees for this very reason. 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:25.740 However, I realized I was experimenting because I wanted to see if our dev VM supported multiple instances of those Worktrees, and it doesn't. 00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:29.940 But I did start doing it so I could solve multiple problems at once. 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.480 And I was actually talking to other friend of the show, 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:36.300 Joe Boyle, about using Worktrees. 00:21:36.860 --> 00:21:38.160 And it was very interesting because I was like, 00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:39.280 oh, this is really easy to do. 00:21:39.520 --> 00:21:40.680 Like, I don't see why you wouldn't do this. 00:21:40.700 --> 00:21:42.980 I think the only caveat to using Worktrees 00:21:43.060 --> 00:21:44.780 was like you can't be on the same branch 00:21:44.980 --> 00:21:45.880 on multiple Worktrees. 00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:48.760 So like if you are on main or master 00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:51.580 for one of your branches, 00:21:52.520 --> 00:21:54.420 like if you try to switch on another branch, 00:21:54.540 --> 00:21:55.300 you just, you can't. 00:21:55.860 --> 00:21:57.060 So that is like a caveat. 00:21:57.720 --> 00:21:59.380 But Joe had mentioned, he's like, 00:21:59.500 --> 00:22:03.420 Yeah people I've talked to that do this, just clone the repo in multiple places. Like, what's 00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:06.660 the difference? And he said, sell me on work trees. I said, I don't know. I'm just like, 00:22:07.020 --> 00:22:12.920 just learning work trees. It seems like, I don't, I guess my only sale here would be like, 00:22:13.280 --> 00:22:20.000 if you have a mono repo or a repo that's so big, like one of our repos, cloning a worktree could 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:27.160 take a long time, even if you're like doing a depth one flag on that clone. So like, yeah, 00:22:27.360 --> 00:22:32.120 work tree might make sense, but I mean, I'm not going to honestly advocate too 00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:33.760 hardly for that anymore. 00:22:33.990 --> 00:22:37.480 Like get built a feature that's like inception of itself. 00:22:37.990 --> 00:22:41.200 If you can just clone the same thing multiple times, but I mean, I don't know, 00:22:41.260 --> 00:22:45.260 it's teach his own, whatever path works for the user, but I do think it's a 00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:46.040